Posts by paranoia agent

29

Child indoctrination explained by transactional analysis

by paranoia agent in

the purpose of psychology is to explain and help others to change, if suffering from depression or anxiety or we just want to understand the other or improve ourselves there are different types of psychological therapies to help us.

we are aware that psychologists have the know-how, just has mechanics know cars and astronauts know space shuttles and psychics, but we know they know a lot but we know very little possibly because its too complicated, it doesn't make rational sense, we don't have enought time or just like my diploma in accounting if its not put to good use it will turn into a vague memory.. look at my previous thread in cognitive dissonance, it sounds alien to many, it sure sounds to those that i explained it to, that is because its not something we normally hear about so explaining it to others these words and their context also requires a connotation from the listener for cognitive dissonance to make any sense.. my very first assignment was on cognitive dissonance in a paper titled media illiteracy or cognitive dissonance which discussed statistical discrepancies between what people said regarding their preferred news media output -tv or newspapers- and the actual sales/view/quality figures of those two media outlets, in the usa during the 70's and 80's.

it turns out that people lied about tv news medium being higher quality than newspapers because the quality is lower than newspapers (local news recorded in many states), the truth is that nobody wants to admit (during the questionnaires for this empirical data) that watching news on tv is easier and lazier than reading.

paranoia agent

Part 7

Had the non-member responded back in Adult by saying something like ‘I appreciate your time and I don’t mean to sound rude but I have made my decision and it would be very grateful if you could stop reaching this household’ and ending the conversation with ‘thank you’, or ‘I have some queries in relation to the bible, I am not very familiar with your publications so if you could, when you have some free time we could discuss the bible’. This is maintaining the exchange as an Adult to Adult conversation and the wisest manner to converse as it hallows a bridge to discussed or inform in a manner that will not offend, strike fear or cause judgement. (Fig.5.3)

As well with the elder scenario, fader knew the elder’s intentions and did something that he may regret that he had done it, had he responded as Adult like ‘I understand your concern but try to understand that I no longer am a believer of this religion and there are certain things that my conscious does not permit me doing’ the transaction would still be crossed and fader would still regret saying that the following day. Or if fader had lied ‘you know, just been too busy lately’ another Adult response is again crossed but not as bad as his other Adult response. If fader is really concerned about elder’s reaction the best response would be fader as Child like ‘Time just fly’s and I am very sorry, I will try to make a habit of attending again’ (Fig. 5.4), and fader’s Child will reinforce elder’s Parent ‘That’s excellent, I know times are taught but this is Satan’s system and the end is so near’.

The point here is that complementary transactions can be necessary to avoid fruitless and sticky situations, the fader who does not want to be disfellowshipped and the concerned non-member that wants to make his point across. I have avoided losing my job by using Parent to Child transactions with my boss as he likes to play games wanting me to think that I am never good enough so he can keep pushing me to work harder but if I respond back as Adult or worse Parent may boss can easily get some other poor schmuck to do my job, but I have complete control on the outcome of the conversation and if ever I leave my job it is completely my choice in doing so, as YouTube user TheraminTrees puts it “Transactional Analysis or TA is a theoretical framework used in therapy and counselling which suggests that one of the overriding factors in the perpetuation of these situations is not the other person’s behaviour but our own state of mind”

29

Child indoctrination explained by transactional analysis

by paranoia agent in

the purpose of psychology is to explain and help others to change, if suffering from depression or anxiety or we just want to understand the other or improve ourselves there are different types of psychological therapies to help us.

we are aware that psychologists have the know-how, just has mechanics know cars and astronauts know space shuttles and psychics, but we know they know a lot but we know very little possibly because its too complicated, it doesn't make rational sense, we don't have enought time or just like my diploma in accounting if its not put to good use it will turn into a vague memory.. look at my previous thread in cognitive dissonance, it sounds alien to many, it sure sounds to those that i explained it to, that is because its not something we normally hear about so explaining it to others these words and their context also requires a connotation from the listener for cognitive dissonance to make any sense.. my very first assignment was on cognitive dissonance in a paper titled media illiteracy or cognitive dissonance which discussed statistical discrepancies between what people said regarding their preferred news media output -tv or newspapers- and the actual sales/view/quality figures of those two media outlets, in the usa during the 70's and 80's.

it turns out that people lied about tv news medium being higher quality than newspapers because the quality is lower than newspapers (local news recorded in many states), the truth is that nobody wants to admit (during the questionnaires for this empirical data) that watching news on tv is easier and lazier than reading.

paranoia agent

yadda yadda 2 : Thanks, gestalt and TA? Sounds interesting.

Part 6

Now that we understand the ego state symbols we can apply them to interactions with others, or transactions as it’s called. As you apply this in every situation it will become more and more natural to think of every interaction as ego states. Keep in mind that it’s only through A that our P and C change; likewise if we are speaking to someone the same principal applies.

There are three types of transactions, complementary, crossed and (complementary and crossed) ulterior transactions. Complementary are like [Father(P): Son, do your homework now or no ice cream. Son(C): Sorry I will] transactions that are parallel with each other, crossed are [Mr X(P): You shut up. Mr Z(P): No, you shut up] and ulterior is explained below. So that we can try to change a person’s beliefs, the futility and strength of transactions needs to be evaluated. We analyse not just what is said but the body language, tone of voice and context.

Let’s say you get a knock on the door to find a well-dressed JW who says ‘Good morning, we are in the neighbour’ and continues on with the sales pitch, you reply hastily ‘My cousin has been shunned by his family just because he decided to leave, what sort of stupid religion is this?’ JW starts as Adult but you respond as Parent because a judgement claim was made. Being that Parent is addressing Child , this transaction is crossed. (Fig. 5.1)

Another example would be that you bump into an elder somewhere and he says ‘Hey where have you been hiding! Why aren’t you attending the meetings?’ And you, a fader, you had a very bad day at work and angry at the religion at this point in time, responds ‘BECAUSE OF THE F*%^#$@ PROTECTING OF PEDOPHILES AND SHUNNING, retard’. It may seem at first that the elder is asking as Adult, just asking a question, but in context what the elder is asking is like a loaded question, a secondary communication, a shepherded protecting his flock following his elders manual to enquire so for disfellowshipping others. The elder is Adult addressing Adult but also Parent addressing Child. Your response is clearly Parent addressing Child so this is an ulterior transaction (Fig. 5.2)

29

Child indoctrination explained by transactional analysis

by paranoia agent in

the purpose of psychology is to explain and help others to change, if suffering from depression or anxiety or we just want to understand the other or improve ourselves there are different types of psychological therapies to help us.

we are aware that psychologists have the know-how, just has mechanics know cars and astronauts know space shuttles and psychics, but we know they know a lot but we know very little possibly because its too complicated, it doesn't make rational sense, we don't have enought time or just like my diploma in accounting if its not put to good use it will turn into a vague memory.. look at my previous thread in cognitive dissonance, it sounds alien to many, it sure sounds to those that i explained it to, that is because its not something we normally hear about so explaining it to others these words and their context also requires a connotation from the listener for cognitive dissonance to make any sense.. my very first assignment was on cognitive dissonance in a paper titled media illiteracy or cognitive dissonance which discussed statistical discrepancies between what people said regarding their preferred news media output -tv or newspapers- and the actual sales/view/quality figures of those two media outlets, in the usa during the 70's and 80's.

it turns out that people lied about tv news medium being higher quality than newspapers because the quality is lower than newspapers (local news recorded in many states), the truth is that nobody wants to admit (during the questionnaires for this empirical data) that watching news on tv is easier and lazier than reading.

paranoia agent

Band on the Run wrote : Never mind. You are on a TA high.

I am not on a TA high, I have explained myself twice.

Band on the Run wrote :Did you ever consider that both anxiety and depression have a biological basis beyond psychology?

No, and that branch of psychology you are referring to is biopsychology. You also don't seem to understand that mental processes can change our biology and vice versa.

Band on the Run wrote : If you want to set up TA as the answer to all problems JW, you are welcome.

I have answered this, the answer was no I do not set TA as the answer to all my problems. And the reason I am posting this is because a) many are not familiar or if they are they are probably not aware that TA can be applied to cults and b) I want to help others.

I am also curious as to why you are posting this, specially what you wrote 'JW presents difficulty beyond TA terms'. I want to know what these beyong TA terms are.

29

Child indoctrination explained by transactional analysis

by paranoia agent in

the purpose of psychology is to explain and help others to change, if suffering from depression or anxiety or we just want to understand the other or improve ourselves there are different types of psychological therapies to help us.

we are aware that psychologists have the know-how, just has mechanics know cars and astronauts know space shuttles and psychics, but we know they know a lot but we know very little possibly because its too complicated, it doesn't make rational sense, we don't have enought time or just like my diploma in accounting if its not put to good use it will turn into a vague memory.. look at my previous thread in cognitive dissonance, it sounds alien to many, it sure sounds to those that i explained it to, that is because its not something we normally hear about so explaining it to others these words and their context also requires a connotation from the listener for cognitive dissonance to make any sense.. my very first assignment was on cognitive dissonance in a paper titled media illiteracy or cognitive dissonance which discussed statistical discrepancies between what people said regarding their preferred news media output -tv or newspapers- and the actual sales/view/quality figures of those two media outlets, in the usa during the 70's and 80's.

it turns out that people lied about tv news medium being higher quality than newspapers because the quality is lower than newspapers (local news recorded in many states), the truth is that nobody wants to admit (during the questionnaires for this empirical data) that watching news on tv is easier and lazier than reading.

paranoia agent

Band on the Run: I believe everyone who took Psych 101 is familiar with TA. Any casual reader of Psychology Today is also familiar. TA is a theory, a way of viewing psychological processes, not proven fact.

Psychology is a very broad subject so in intro to psych 1 and 2 I was not taught TA. There is very little in science that is a proven fact and the scientific definition for theory is different to what most people commonly refer to as theory.

I fail to see the great import of TA. Child indoctrination is catchy. Every generation indoctrinates their children in the fatih of the culture. We learn the rules of social life.

TA is a very broad form of therapy that encompasses many aspects of psychology that has helped many from borderline personality disorder, depression, anxiety, and just to being a better person, a better parent. You admit TA to be well known but you also wrote that you fail to see the great importance so I will need you do elaborate more on your point.

Growing up JW presents difficulty beyond TA terms. We are taught a counter to what we learn in school. The only legitimate authority is the WT and our JW parents.

I do agree and I made this point before in my other post that TA to me is not everything but in regard to this top post of yours you are very wrong. Could you elaborate on how 'JW presents difficulty beyond TA terms' and what this means.

Many here post about their experience as a born-in or their regret at raising their children in the faith. My experience was that education and age approriate activities were forbidden.

And many continue to suffer from anxiety and depression, coping to the loss of family members that have shunned them, while others are trying to convince others to leave. Some don't adapt well into the real world along with seeking 'worldly' friends. I am one of these people and everything that you have written has no use to victims.

29

Child indoctrination explained by transactional analysis

by paranoia agent in

the purpose of psychology is to explain and help others to change, if suffering from depression or anxiety or we just want to understand the other or improve ourselves there are different types of psychological therapies to help us.

we are aware that psychologists have the know-how, just has mechanics know cars and astronauts know space shuttles and psychics, but we know they know a lot but we know very little possibly because its too complicated, it doesn't make rational sense, we don't have enought time or just like my diploma in accounting if its not put to good use it will turn into a vague memory.. look at my previous thread in cognitive dissonance, it sounds alien to many, it sure sounds to those that i explained it to, that is because its not something we normally hear about so explaining it to others these words and their context also requires a connotation from the listener for cognitive dissonance to make any sense.. my very first assignment was on cognitive dissonance in a paper titled media illiteracy or cognitive dissonance which discussed statistical discrepancies between what people said regarding their preferred news media output -tv or newspapers- and the actual sales/view/quality figures of those two media outlets, in the usa during the 70's and 80's.

it turns out that people lied about tv news medium being higher quality than newspapers because the quality is lower than newspapers (local news recorded in many states), the truth is that nobody wants to admit (during the questionnaires for this empirical data) that watching news on tv is easier and lazier than reading.

paranoia agent

Part 5

I wrote that Child and Parent ego states are developed during ages 0 to 5~7, when they start to socialise with the rest of the world, during pre-school, it is now the Adult ego (which emerged during the first 10 months after birth) state that starts to develop and it is from this ego state that alters the Parent and Child ego states during the course of their lives, as it starts to slowly understand the world. It does not necessarily mean that all that occurred prior to the 7 year mark can change, some can be switch off, but others no

The Adult ego state gets data from Parent and Child and alters the Parent and Child by understanding discrepancies in reality. For example the Child ego state of the emotion fear due to not wanting to touch the stove because there will be punishment from mum, but once the real motive is understood that the hot stove will cause 3rd degree burns, from mum or someone else explaining it (Adult to Adult transaction) and mum is just trying to protect, will override the old Child ego state (Fig. 4)

Ok then what about cults? That will be discussed in part 6 along with discrepancies.

Now that you understand how all 3 ego states are developed and watched the video on transactions (part 2) you have the tools on how to understand others, we can now start to address cults specifically. The video below may offend theists but it relates to jw's, think of the interactions that occur during witnessing/interacting with other jw's, and how they apply to this video. How we should deal with them will be explained in future.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Eam-z1bwrk

29

FDS... GB Member Geoffrey Jackson's wife looks young

by sherrie11 in

.

how old is this man?

any one have more information on him?.

paranoia agent

My cong had an elder that was also dating someone around 20~30 years difference, not that I really care but he looked and acted like Mr Burns and she, Asian. Well Asian’s are good at hidden their age so I might be wrong.

It's funny and sad seeing a young sister jumping into the arms of a wrinkly old man that probably needs a lot more than Viagra, in her mind she is doing the best thing. As long as she is in submission and acts like one of those stereotypical house wife’s you see in the Brady Bunch it should be alright.

29

Child indoctrination explained by transactional analysis

by paranoia agent in

the purpose of psychology is to explain and help others to change, if suffering from depression or anxiety or we just want to understand the other or improve ourselves there are different types of psychological therapies to help us.

we are aware that psychologists have the know-how, just has mechanics know cars and astronauts know space shuttles and psychics, but we know they know a lot but we know very little possibly because its too complicated, it doesn't make rational sense, we don't have enought time or just like my diploma in accounting if its not put to good use it will turn into a vague memory.. look at my previous thread in cognitive dissonance, it sounds alien to many, it sure sounds to those that i explained it to, that is because its not something we normally hear about so explaining it to others these words and their context also requires a connotation from the listener for cognitive dissonance to make any sense.. my very first assignment was on cognitive dissonance in a paper titled media illiteracy or cognitive dissonance which discussed statistical discrepancies between what people said regarding their preferred news media output -tv or newspapers- and the actual sales/view/quality figures of those two media outlets, in the usa during the 70's and 80's.

it turns out that people lied about tv news medium being higher quality than newspapers because the quality is lower than newspapers (local news recorded in many states), the truth is that nobody wants to admit (during the questionnaires for this empirical data) that watching news on tv is easier and lazier than reading.

paranoia agent

Thanks nonjwspouse, I like his videos a lot.

29

Internet VS WTS

by joe134cd in

jw
friends

ok here is another spin on the wt verses the internet argument, and this time i'm going to be pro-wt.

i have read articles and seen graphs that show in countries that have high internet penetration, growth rates diminish.

this is used to support the idea that the information age is killing the wt.

paranoia agent

Allow more and more generations to die off and I predict that althought religion will still exist society in general will be a lot more secular. There is a natural tendency for history to repeat itself, but with the internet I see changes.

61

Accepting my own mortality, and the naturalness of death - the final step in my JW recovery.

by fresh prince of ohio in

jw
friends

for people who have a paralyzing fear of dying, to where it seems like it's this horrible, stalking monster, jwism is a powerful sedative.. but really, the idea of living forever, in human form, is nonsense.

living forever isn't about living forever, it's about not dying.. death is natural.

it can be painful, sudden, or both.

paranoia agent

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DU6bc_Gsp7s

61

Accepting my own mortality, and the naturalness of death - the final step in my JW recovery.

by fresh prince of ohio in

jw
friends

for people who have a paralyzing fear of dying, to where it seems like it's this horrible, stalking monster, jwism is a powerful sedative.. but really, the idea of living forever, in human form, is nonsense.

living forever isn't about living forever, it's about not dying.. death is natural.

it can be painful, sudden, or both.

paranoia agent

If people didn't die, there wouldn't be room for new life.